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hello and welcome to this nasa goddard

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google plus hangout on earthrise one of

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the most iconic photographs ever taken

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by humans now thanks to new data

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acquired by a nasa satellite that is

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orbiting the moon right now nasa

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visualizers have been able to recreate

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the experience of the apollo 8

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astronauts as they scrambled to take

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these photographs in both black and

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white and in color

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this new visualization essentially lets

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you sit on the shoulders of these three

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astronauts in their small space capsule

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or while they orbited the moon and

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experience this moment of earth rise

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i'm aries keck here at nasa goddard

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space flight center in maryland and

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during this hangout we'll be talk taking

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your questions and talking about this

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moment in history how the visualization

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was made and the other scientific

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discoveries being made by nasa's lunar

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reconnaissance orbiter to ask a question

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just put it in the comments section of

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this hangout or on the comment section

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of youtube or on twitter we'll be

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moderating the hashtag earthrise all one

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word

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um joining us for this hangout is the

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project scientist for the lunar

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reconnaissance orbiter which is also

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known as lro and that's john keller

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seated in front of nasa goddard's

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hyperwall is science visualizer ernie

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wright

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and joining us from his home in vermont

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is space historian andrew chaiken

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andrew is the author of the book a man

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on the moon which formed the basis for

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the 12-part hbo series about nasa's

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apollo project

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it was called from the earth to the moon

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and andrew we're going to go to you

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first can you set the stage here for

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this moment in history that we're going

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to watch a little bit in this hangout

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well sure hi aries thank you um

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you know this is one of the most

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incredible moments in the history of

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exploration

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apollo

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was the program that landed humans on

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the moon and we rightfully focus on the

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moon landing as the big triumphant

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moment for apollo but really

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in a human sense it was apollo 8

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that really kind of was a climax because

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it was the first time

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humans left their home planet

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and journeyed to another world when

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frank foreman jim lovell and bill anders

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fired their uh booster to go out of

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earth orbit and then make a journey of

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about 230 000 miles to go into orbit

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around the moon

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and you know the

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i wrote about this extensively and i

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talked to the astronauts and i thought

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there i thought i knew everything that

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there was to know about apollo 8 and

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particularly about the moment that we

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call earthrise

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but what's amazing is how this new

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uh lunar reconnaissance orbiter data

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has allowed ernie wright and his

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colleagues at goddard to go back and

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literally perform detective work and

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uncover new details and i'll just give

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you a brief sense of what is so amazing

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about this um you know the moment of the

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earth rise you can only see an earth

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rise from orbit around the moon what

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happens is and i have my visual aids

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here you actually are going over the

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moon

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and your orbital motion carries you

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around the moon and as you come around

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from the far side of the moon to the

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near side the side that always faces the

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earth

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comes up above the horizon it actually

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pops up

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what i'd always thought

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and most of us had always thought was

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that the spacecraft was coming around

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the moon like so with its nose roughly

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pointed at the earth or maybe slightly

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to the side or something like that

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what ernie was able to figure out from

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the onboard photography because there

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was a another camera that was pointed

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sort of boresighted with the nose of the

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spacecraft like a gun camera on a world

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war ii fighter that kind of thing

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anyway those photographs reveal that the

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spacecraft was actually pointed at the

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moon and was actually rotating

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such that as the astronauts came around

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from the moon for the fourth time

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the spacecraft rotated so that bill

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anders in the right-hand seat

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could see the earth coming up now this

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was something that had happened three

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times before

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on apollo 8

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but because the windows were pointed

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away from the earth as they came around

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they didn't see it

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and now as you see in the video the new

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video which is

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beautiful recreations of the event using

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the lro data but it's also synchronized

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with the onboard voice tape and it's

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it's a fantastic human moment of

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exploration you can hear the the

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amazement

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in bill's voice as he sees the earth

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coming up and then jim lovell

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comes up and sees it too and

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there ensues a scramble for color film

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and finally um anders is able to capture

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the photo he took one black and white

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right away and then he's able to capture

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the color shot that became an icon of

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the 20th century

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and i know we're working on getting some

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of that video up in a minute now i

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wonder andrew is the historian here i

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breezed over the three astronauts but

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who exactly were these men how many

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times have they been up right well

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apollo 8 was truly the

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the moment at which nasa

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could could uh take a giant leap uh

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maybe not to the surface of the moon but

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away from the earth to orbit the moon

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and to command that mission

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um they go they gave that mission to

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frank borman who had been the commander

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of gemini 7

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which was a mission in december of 1965

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in which he and jim lovell spent two

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weeks

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orbiting the earth in a very tiny very

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cramped

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gemini cockpit uh to show that humans

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could survive in space long enough to

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make a lunar voyage

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um jim lovell who was his crewmate on

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that flight gemini 7 was also with him

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on apollo 8 as the flight's navigator

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and the third crewman bill anders was a

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rookie

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who was making his first and as it

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turned out only space flight

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and his

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uh function on the mission was to be the

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systems engineer keep track of the

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systems also

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did a lot of the photographic work and a

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lot of the

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uh business of observing the moon

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through the spacecraft windows from

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lunar orbit so it was a

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and for me as a storyteller of space as

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a historian

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what i love about the apollo 8 story is

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that they're such different

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personalities frank borman is sort of

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the gruff nonsense military style

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commander

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anders is the rookie

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a little more

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um and lovell

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really has a kind of a great spirit

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that comes through in his comments about

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the earth as a grand oasis from space he

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designed the mission patch

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which was a beautiful figure eight going

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around the moon and the earth so you

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have these three very different

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personalities in this spacecraft

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experiencing one of the most

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unbelievable moments in the history of

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exploration

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and now ernie you're the visualizer

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taking some of this data from a current

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mission lro and recreating this moment

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what inspired you to try to recreate

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this moment um we you know we already

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had the audio and we already had the

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still pictures why put the time into

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taking true scientific data of the moon

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and recreating something that happened

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so long ago

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well there were a couple of reasons for

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that i mean it started when my wife got

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me a poster of the earthrise image for

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christmas a couple years ago

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and

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it i said you know i've got a ton of

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great lro data that maybe i could use to

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recreate this

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and so

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last year for earth day we released a

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very simple sort of recreation that

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matched

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the photographs with lro terrain and i

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was happy with that one but as i did the

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write-up for it i realized that there

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was a lot that we didn't know about the

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circumstances surrounding that photo

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so i sort of filed that away

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and about a year later um i started to

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look at some of the other apollo 8

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photography and i realized as as andy

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mentioned there was a camera that was

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pointed

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straight down at the lunar surface and

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it was taking pictures every 20 seconds

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and right around the time of the

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authorized photographs

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you could see

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that the images that were taken by this

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camera were rotating

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and

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so i mean it told me two things it told

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me that the spacecraft was pointing

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straight down and it also told me that

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it was rolling when the photos were

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taken

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so i carefully matched those photos to

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the terrain

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determined which way the spacecraft was

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pointing

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and

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you know that opened up

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the recognition that there were other

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things going on like which window was

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the earth visible in

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um and these are things that we didn't

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know before so by the end of it

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we knew

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probably which window each photo was

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taken from and and who took them

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and it

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that was really possible because lro has

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this amazing global

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data set that just didn't exist before

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we really didn't have

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a global

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elevation map for the moon that was good

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enough to do this

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so that's what made it possible it was

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this convergence of

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the data which i work with all the time

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and the idea of seeing if we could

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you know recreate earthrise just as a

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way to i mean it's

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it's in a funny way it's a way to ground

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truth the data you know if you can match

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that to a photograph taken by somebody

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who's actually there you know

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everything's good and it made me very

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happy when all of that came together

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that's fantastic one of the things you

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you brought up in part the reasons this

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made it possible was

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the the spacecraft that is currently

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right now orbiting our moon um lro i'm

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going to try to say it one more time

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00:10:31,990 --> 00:10:30,079
lunar reconnaissance orbiter um lro john

284
00:10:33,829 --> 00:10:32,000
keller you're the project scientist for

285
00:10:35,990 --> 00:10:33,839
lro can you tell us

286
00:10:37,990 --> 00:10:36,000
what that spacecraft is doing what

287
00:10:41,990 --> 00:10:38,000
instruments are on that as it's orbiting

288
00:10:47,910 --> 00:10:43,590
oh and john i think your microphone's

289
00:10:52,870 --> 00:10:51,509
lr went into space in uh june of 2009

290
00:10:54,470 --> 00:10:52,880
it's a mission that's both uh

291
00:10:56,470 --> 00:10:54,480
exploration mission and a science

292
00:10:57,509 --> 00:10:56,480
mission there's seven instruments on

293
00:11:00,550 --> 00:10:57,519
there

294
00:11:02,630 --> 00:11:00,560
um the two that uh

295
00:11:04,069 --> 00:11:02,640
i should highlight are uh the laser

296
00:11:07,509 --> 00:11:04,079
altimeter

297
00:11:10,389 --> 00:11:07,519
um and the uh camera system because

298
00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:10,399
those are the two that were used by uh

299
00:11:14,870 --> 00:11:13,360
uh ernie to uh recreate the

300
00:11:16,310 --> 00:11:14,880
uh

301
00:11:17,670 --> 00:11:16,320
the earth rise

302
00:11:20,630 --> 00:11:17,680
and

303
00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:20,640
uh so so we have been you know with the

304
00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:23,360
with the laser it's an advanced laser

305
00:11:29,590 --> 00:11:25,680
that has uh

306
00:11:31,269 --> 00:11:29,600
ping the moon uh uh three billion shots

307
00:11:33,110 --> 00:11:31,279
over the time

308
00:11:34,870 --> 00:11:33,120
um and you just measure the time of

309
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:34,880
flight for the laser to hit the surface

310
00:11:39,829 --> 00:11:37,120
and for it to come back and that tells

311
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:39,839
you uh the surface how hot you know the

312
00:11:43,430 --> 00:11:41,760
distance to this to the surface and you

313
00:11:44,949 --> 00:11:43,440
get the shape of the moon

314
00:11:46,949 --> 00:11:44,959
uh prior to

315
00:11:49,030 --> 00:11:46,959
lro going into space we actually knew

316
00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:49,040
the shape of mars better than we do do

317
00:11:53,430 --> 00:11:51,600
the moon did the moon and now

318
00:11:56,949 --> 00:11:53,440
uh we know the moon and the shape of the

319
00:11:59,750 --> 00:11:56,959
moon better than we know any any planet

320
00:12:02,069 --> 00:11:59,760
including earth and the earth because so

321
00:12:04,470 --> 00:12:02,079
much of the earth is underwater that we

322
00:12:06,310 --> 00:12:04,480
we don't know the topography that well

323
00:12:07,750 --> 00:12:06,320
john i have a quick question for you on

324
00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:07,760
that when you're shooting this laser

325
00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:10,240
down to the moon's surface from um the

326
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:12,000
orbiter is it affecting the moon's

327
00:12:15,430 --> 00:12:13,600
surface at all or is it like those

328
00:12:16,949 --> 00:12:15,440
little lasers we play with our cats

329
00:12:19,430 --> 00:12:16,959
where it's just a light

330
00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:19,440
it's uh it's very uh it doesn't affect

331
00:12:23,110 --> 00:12:21,200
it at all because it's uh

332
00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:23,120
it's it's first of all it's not a very

333
00:12:26,389 --> 00:12:24,480
strong laser

334
00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:26,399
second it's it's broken up into five

335
00:12:31,509 --> 00:12:28,480
different spots so simultaneously we hit

336
00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:31,519
the moon with five spots and then third

337
00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:33,360
the distance for from which we were

338
00:12:35,910 --> 00:12:34,639
lazing from

339
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:35,920
uh

340
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:37,040
you know on

341
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:39,360
most of most of it was 50 kilometers up

342
00:12:41,990 --> 00:12:40,160
so

343
00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:42,000
the spot size is spread out quite a bit

344
00:12:46,949 --> 00:12:44,720
by the time it reaches the moon

345
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:46,959
and then the other uh part is is the

346
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:48,079
camera

347
00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:50,800
and what ernie has to do is he takes the

348
00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:53,279
you know the the full moon is has been

349
00:12:58,949 --> 00:12:55,279
created has been

350
00:13:00,150 --> 00:12:58,959
photographed by lro at uh a 100 meter

351
00:13:02,230 --> 00:13:00,160
resolution

352
00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:02,240
and and he

353
00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:05,440
he lays down the images of the uh

354
00:13:08,790 --> 00:13:07,360
that were taken by the camera onto this

355
00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:08,800
topography

356
00:13:12,870 --> 00:13:10,800
and by doing that that's

357
00:13:14,230 --> 00:13:12,880
that's what you're seeing in his uh

358
00:13:17,350 --> 00:13:14,240
in his video

359
00:13:19,590 --> 00:13:17,360
and and and really able to match what

360
00:13:21,910 --> 00:13:19,600
what the photographer

361
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:21,920
bill anders was seen on

362
00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:24,880
on the apollo 8.

363
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:26,560
fantastic i know we're going to pull up

364
00:13:30,310 --> 00:13:28,720
some of the just a segment of this

365
00:13:32,470 --> 00:13:30,320
recreation that ernie's created the

366
00:13:34,629 --> 00:13:32,480
entire length of the the video that we

367
00:13:35,910 --> 00:13:34,639
put out today is a full six minutes long

368
00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:35,920
it incorporates both some of the

369
00:13:40,629 --> 00:13:38,480
visualizations and some archival footage

370
00:13:42,870 --> 00:13:40,639
of the apollo astronauts themselves and

371
00:13:45,030 --> 00:13:42,880
you'll find that link on our

372
00:13:46,629 --> 00:13:45,040
goddard uh google plus page we'll have

373
00:13:48,870 --> 00:13:46,639
it on the youtube page shortly and it's

374
00:13:50,470 --> 00:13:48,880
out on nasa.gov as well

375
00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:50,480
um one of the things we're getting

376
00:13:53,430 --> 00:13:51,760
questions in i wanted to remind

377
00:13:55,350 --> 00:13:53,440
everybody we're taking your questions if

378
00:13:57,750 --> 00:13:55,360
you go hashtag earthrise i'm following

379
00:13:59,030 --> 00:13:57,760
along here on on an ipad or put the

380
00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:59,040
questions in

381
00:14:03,750 --> 00:14:01,519
the youtube section and comments or on

382
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:03,760
google plus and i have a question that

383
00:14:08,470 --> 00:14:05,600
um comes from someone by the name of

384
00:14:11,350 --> 00:14:08,480
tyler waldrop at

385
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:11,360
shadow404 and now we're holding this

386
00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:14,240
next week is the 45th anniversary of

387
00:14:19,590 --> 00:14:17,279
this event um he tyler wants to know how

388
00:14:21,189 --> 00:14:19,600
old each of us was back when apollo 8

389
00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:21,199
was happening i'm not going to answer

390
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:22,720
that though i haven't easy out that i

391
00:14:26,949 --> 00:14:25,600
wasn't even around then but were you

392
00:14:28,389 --> 00:14:26,959
where's anybody anybody else in the

393
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:28,399
hangout were you

394
00:14:34,069 --> 00:14:30,480
at an age where you remember this event

395
00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:35,509
well i'll just

396
00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:37,920
and say that uh

397
00:14:42,150 --> 00:14:39,920
you know for me uh

398
00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:42,160
i was every apollo mission i was glued

399
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:44,560
to the tv i was 12 years old

400
00:14:47,430 --> 00:14:46,320
and i had my little mission control in

401
00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:47,440
the den

402
00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:50,160
with my maps of the moon and my models

403
00:14:54,069 --> 00:14:52,000
of the spacecraft and

404
00:14:56,310 --> 00:14:54,079
copies of time and newsweek and you know

405
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:56,320
i was doing everything i could to you

406
00:15:01,509 --> 00:14:58,320
know vicariously participate in the

407
00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:01,519
mission so yes i remember it as one of

408
00:15:12,310 --> 00:15:08,790
yeah for me uh i i uh i certainly

409
00:15:16,069 --> 00:15:12,320
remember the apollo 11 landing and i

410
00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:19,829
i yeah i was i was six years old

411
00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:21,680
and remember

412
00:15:26,790 --> 00:15:24,160
what i remember most clearly is 11

413
00:15:27,750 --> 00:15:26,800
because my parents let me stay up late

414
00:15:28,629 --> 00:15:27,760
um

415
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:28,639
11

416
00:15:36,710 --> 00:15:34,240
their first spacewalk at about 10 30

417
00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:36,720
eastern time and that was way past my

418
00:15:41,750 --> 00:15:39,040
bedtime but they they let me stay up and

419
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:41,760
watch it and so that memory is imprinted

420
00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:43,600
um but you know when you're six you

421
00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:45,440
think you go to the moon every day and

422
00:15:47,750 --> 00:15:46,320
so

423
00:15:49,829 --> 00:15:47,760
that part of it didn't make a big

424
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:49,839
impression on me until i was much older

425
00:15:55,509 --> 00:15:52,800
and i was grateful that i that i could

426
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:55,519
see that as a as a you know it's in my

427
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:57,360
living memory but um

428
00:16:01,030 --> 00:15:58,320
it took a little while for me to

429
00:16:02,389 --> 00:16:01,040
understand the significance of it

430
00:16:03,990 --> 00:16:02,399
that's fantastic we have another

431
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:04,000
question as we get the video with the

432
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:05,440
audio queued up we're going to play a

433
00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:06,480
little bit of it so you'll be able to

434
00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:09,440
hear the astronauts as they they grab

435
00:16:13,430 --> 00:16:11,600
cameras and take this image and part of

436
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:13,440
the gorgeous visualization that ernie

437
00:16:17,430 --> 00:16:15,360
wright put together please keep asking

438
00:16:19,110 --> 00:16:17,440
questions at hashtag earthrise i'm

439
00:16:20,389 --> 00:16:19,120
mary's keck here at nasa goddard space

440
00:16:22,870 --> 00:16:20,399
flight center and we're talking about

441
00:16:24,710 --> 00:16:22,880
this amazing image and actually while uh

442
00:16:26,230 --> 00:16:24,720
while we also still have ernie up he's

443
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:26,240
sitting in front of a hyper wall which

444
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:28,320
is a whole bunch of big flat screen tvs

445
00:16:31,749 --> 00:16:29,440
that we use here for science

446
00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:31,759
visualizations and that's one of that's

447
00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:33,519
the image we're talking about this image

448
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:35,519
of the earth actually rising just like

449
00:16:39,670 --> 00:16:37,120
how the sun rises when we're here on

450
00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:39,680
earth the earth rising over the horizon

451
00:16:44,949 --> 00:16:42,240
of the moon um one of the next questions

452
00:16:48,069 --> 00:16:44,959
we've got is at vr doug and what he

453
00:16:49,110 --> 00:16:48,079
wanted to know is what about this vr

454
00:16:53,670 --> 00:16:49,120
what

455
00:16:55,030 --> 00:16:53,680
makes this photo realistic and i'm

456
00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:55,040
wondering ernie that's a question for

457
00:16:59,509 --> 00:16:56,880
you was it in lining up

458
00:17:01,670 --> 00:16:59,519
the the sort of the original image and

459
00:17:04,390 --> 00:17:01,680
then taking the new lro data with its

460
00:17:06,069 --> 00:17:04,400
really high quality information and

461
00:17:08,230 --> 00:17:06,079
lining up to make it essentially a

462
00:17:10,710 --> 00:17:08,240
recreation

463
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:10,720
that's exactly right

464
00:17:14,069 --> 00:17:12,880
for every photograph that you see in the

465
00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:14,079
video

466
00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:15,520
i was using

467
00:17:20,549 --> 00:17:18,079
animation software and positioned a

468
00:17:21,510 --> 00:17:20,559
virtual camera over a model of the

469
00:17:24,150 --> 00:17:21,520
terrain

470
00:17:25,750 --> 00:17:24,160
and i really did this by eye you know i

471
00:17:27,270 --> 00:17:25,760
moved the camera a little bit this way

472
00:17:28,470 --> 00:17:27,280
that way

473
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:28,480
changed the

474
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:30,320
change the direction that it was

475
00:17:33,430 --> 00:17:31,520
pointing

476
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:33,440
until i got an exact match with the

477
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:35,200
photographs

478
00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:36,080
and

479
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:37,760
that information tells you something

480
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:39,679
about which way the spacecraft is

481
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:41,120
turning too because once you get the

482
00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:42,640
camera in the right place

483
00:17:46,549 --> 00:17:44,960
you know that the real camera was in a

484
00:17:48,310 --> 00:17:46,559
certain position and pointed in a

485
00:17:49,190 --> 00:17:48,320
certain direction

486
00:17:51,909 --> 00:17:49,200
so

487
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:51,919
the the visuals and

488
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:54,160
the understanding of the geometry kind

489
00:17:59,510 --> 00:17:54,960
of

490
00:18:04,710 --> 00:18:02,310
fantastic and andrew um i wanted to ask

491
00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:04,720
you again real quick when

492
00:18:08,789 --> 00:18:06,880
is it unusual for historians to use

493
00:18:10,549 --> 00:18:08,799
these types of animations or computer

494
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:10,559
recreations to see things from a new

495
00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:12,320
angle or a different angle or is that

496
00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:13,840
becoming something that historians use

497
00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:15,360
quite a bit with different for a

498
00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:17,440
different aspect

499
00:18:21,990 --> 00:18:20,240
well it certainly wasn't available 25

500
00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:22,000
years ago when i was riding a man on the

501
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:23,840
moon i mean i was

502
00:18:29,350 --> 00:18:24,880
my

503
00:18:31,990 --> 00:18:29,360
using

504
00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:32,000
the onboard voice tape

505
00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:33,200
my

506
00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:35,520
delving through the transcripts of the

507
00:18:39,430 --> 00:18:37,760
communications the post flight

508
00:18:40,310 --> 00:18:39,440
debriefing and of course my interviews

509
00:18:41,909 --> 00:18:40,320
with

510
00:18:43,029 --> 00:18:41,919
frank warm and jim lovell and bill

511
00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:43,039
anders

512
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:45,520
what's so neat about

513
00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:47,200
being able to revisit this now with

514
00:18:51,669 --> 00:18:49,280
today's technology

515
00:18:53,750 --> 00:18:51,679
is that first of all we've got images

516
00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:53,760
from lro that are so good i mean if you

517
00:18:59,430 --> 00:18:55,200
go on the web

518
00:19:01,029 --> 00:18:59,440
and you google lro apollo landing sites

519
00:19:02,549 --> 00:19:01,039
you will see images that are so good

520
00:19:04,710 --> 00:19:02,559
that you can literally

521
00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:04,720
see the astronauts tracks

522
00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:06,240
that they made with their feet

523
00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:08,320
disturbing the lunar soil

524
00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:10,080
so that gives you some idea of how

525
00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:12,640
powerful the cameras are and then as as

526
00:19:16,870 --> 00:19:15,360
john pointed out when combined with the

527
00:19:19,270 --> 00:19:16,880
really beautiful

528
00:19:20,710 --> 00:19:19,280
uh laser altimetry data on the

529
00:19:22,870 --> 00:19:20,720
topography

530
00:19:26,230 --> 00:19:22,880
that nails down the three-dimensionality

531
00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:26,240
of the moon and the last piece of the

532
00:19:33,110 --> 00:19:30,080
puzzle is this ability to do

533
00:19:35,830 --> 00:19:33,120
computer generated scenes

534
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:35,840
that can be viewed from any realistic

535
00:19:39,430 --> 00:19:37,600
viewpoint and there are realistic

536
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:39,440
computer models of the spacecraft we can

537
00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:40,480
use

538
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:43,600
and as ernie said you set up a virtual

539
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:45,919
camera so

540
00:19:51,430 --> 00:19:50,080
is it unusual i think probably nowadays

541
00:19:53,909 --> 00:19:51,440
it's going to become more and more

542
00:19:57,029 --> 00:19:53,919
common but you know it's it's sort of

543
00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:57,039
the old maxim about

544
00:20:01,029 --> 00:19:59,360
um computers in general you're you know

545
00:20:02,789 --> 00:20:01,039
if your data is no good

546
00:20:05,590 --> 00:20:02,799
as they used to say in the old days of

547
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:05,600
computing garbage and garbage out

548
00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:07,679
what's so great about this is the data

549
00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:09,440
is so good

550
00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:11,600
that the historical conclusions that

551
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:14,720
come out of that data and it's been it's

552
00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:17,760
been interpreted so beautifully by ernie

553
00:20:21,750 --> 00:20:19,600
and his his colleagues

554
00:20:22,870 --> 00:20:21,760
the historical knowledge that comes out

555
00:20:25,909 --> 00:20:22,880
of that

556
00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:25,919
is so good that it matches up precisely

557
00:20:29,430 --> 00:20:28,240
with everything we knew before you can

558
00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:29,440
in fact

559
00:20:33,669 --> 00:20:32,000
one little detail that i'll share

560
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:33,679
the tape one of the things that ernie

561
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:35,039
noticed on the tape i'm a little

562
00:20:38,630 --> 00:20:37,200
embarrassed that i didn't notice this 25

563
00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:38,640
years ago but ernie

564
00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:40,640
beat me to it

565
00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:43,120
is that you can literally hear on the

566
00:20:45,669 --> 00:20:44,000
tape

567
00:20:48,230 --> 00:20:45,679
when bill anders

568
00:20:50,549 --> 00:20:48,240
clicks the shutter on the hasselblad you

569
00:20:51,990 --> 00:20:50,559
hear the shutter and then the motorized

570
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:52,000
film advance

571
00:20:55,510 --> 00:20:54,240
as he takes each of these three photos

572
00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:55,520
first of black and white and then the

573
00:21:01,430 --> 00:20:56,880
two color

574
00:21:03,510 --> 00:21:01,440
and that allowed him to precisely place

575
00:21:05,830 --> 00:21:03,520
the audio

576
00:21:07,990 --> 00:21:05,840
with the recreated motion of the

577
00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:08,000
spacecraft and the visual of the moon so

578
00:21:13,190 --> 00:21:11,120
it is a full literally a full recreation

579
00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:13,200
of the event and i'm just glad

580
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:15,120
that technology has progressed to the

581
00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:17,200
point where we can do that i mean it

582
00:21:22,470 --> 00:21:19,520
would have made my life a lot easier 25

583
00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:22,480
years ago but better late than never

584
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:23,840
that's great well the biggest comment

585
00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:25,520
we're getting after was play the

586
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:27,760
animation already so we're going to mute

587
00:21:32,789 --> 00:21:29,520
our microphones and we're going to share

588
00:21:34,710 --> 00:21:32,799
this just a snippet of this longer video

589
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:34,720
you can see the full length video at the

590
00:21:38,310 --> 00:21:37,120
website and let's all mute our mix and

591
00:22:01,430 --> 00:21:38,320
they're going to play some of this with

592
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:04,149
the impact crater with uh

593
00:22:08,310 --> 00:22:06,240
at

594
00:22:10,630 --> 00:22:08,320
this part of the sub solar point on the

595
00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:10,640
south side and the floor that's uh

596
00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:17,830
but i could get a quick enough look at

597
00:22:34,870 --> 00:22:18,640
it

598
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:46,230
uh

599
00:22:48,630 --> 00:22:47,750
oh my god look at that picture over

600
00:22:53,190 --> 00:22:48,640
there

601
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:59,510
hey don't take that off schedule

602
00:23:05,190 --> 00:23:02,230
got a color film jim

603
00:23:10,390 --> 00:23:05,200
hand me a roll of color questions

604
00:23:22,390 --> 00:23:14,630
okay it's out here just grab me a color

605
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:23,990
that one

606
00:23:48,390 --> 00:23:27,120
yeah looking for one c368

607
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:54,710
yeah i got it right here

608
00:23:57,909 --> 00:23:56,710
so i got it crazy it's very clear right

609
00:23:59,510 --> 00:23:57,919
here

610
00:24:01,830 --> 00:23:59,520
you got it

611
00:24:03,669 --> 00:24:01,840
it takes several trouble here

612
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:03,679
let me just get the right

613
00:24:11,669 --> 00:24:05,760
okay calm down rubble

614
00:24:11,679 --> 00:24:37,190
250 level

615
00:24:41,029 --> 00:24:39,350
that was fantastic i love hearing them

616
00:24:43,110 --> 00:24:41,039
argue a little bit of like i got it i

617
00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:43,120
got it we're fine i got it

618
00:24:46,310 --> 00:24:44,159
um

619
00:24:47,909 --> 00:24:46,320
and uh and you taken remind us again

620
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:47,919
just who are the three gentlemen we just

621
00:24:51,590 --> 00:24:49,679
heard talking and that was the audio the

622
00:24:53,990 --> 00:24:51,600
original audio with ernie wright's

623
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:54,000
brilliant recreation of that moment as

624
00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:56,159
we were out in space looking at the

625
00:24:59,029 --> 00:24:57,679
apollo capsule who are those three guys

626
00:25:02,070 --> 00:24:59,039
we just heard talk

627
00:25:03,990 --> 00:25:02,080
right so so the first voice you hear is

628
00:25:05,510 --> 00:25:04,000
frank borman the mission commander who's

629
00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:05,520
over in the left seat

630
00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:08,000
uh left-hand side of the spacecraft and

631
00:25:11,350 --> 00:25:09,520
he announces that they're about to

632
00:25:14,149 --> 00:25:11,360
perform a role maneuver which is in the

633
00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:14,159
flight plan the reason he's doing it is

634
00:25:17,909 --> 00:25:16,240
because he wants to rotate the

635
00:25:20,149 --> 00:25:17,919
spacecraft so that jim lovell the

636
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:20,159
navigator who's down in the lower

637
00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:22,880
equipment bay can use the onboard sexton

638
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:25,200
to side on lunar landmarks

639
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:28,000
anders meanwhile is in the right seat

640
00:25:32,549 --> 00:25:30,640
he's looking out his window at the moon

641
00:25:34,390 --> 00:25:32,559
and making observations into the tape

642
00:25:35,990 --> 00:25:34,400
recorder for the benefit of the

643
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:36,000
scientists back on earth when they hear

644
00:25:39,990 --> 00:25:37,919
those tapes

645
00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:40,000
when the earth comes up as the as the

646
00:25:44,870 --> 00:25:42,240
spacecraft rotates and anders suddenly

647
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:44,880
sees it coming out his side window

648
00:25:49,350 --> 00:25:47,200
he says oh my god look at that picture

649
00:25:51,190 --> 00:25:49,360
over there and borman

650
00:25:53,350 --> 00:25:51,200
jokes with him and says don't take that

651
00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:53,360
it's not scheduled and the reason borman

652
00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:54,640
says that

653
00:25:59,190 --> 00:25:57,200
is because earlier in

654
00:26:00,710 --> 00:25:59,200
the day while they had

655
00:26:02,789 --> 00:26:00,720
pretty shortly after they had fired

656
00:26:04,470 --> 00:26:02,799
their engine to go into lunar orbit

657
00:26:07,029 --> 00:26:04,480
they were looking down at the moon and

658
00:26:09,269 --> 00:26:07,039
they were amazed and frank borman

659
00:26:11,909 --> 00:26:09,279
wanted to take a picture and he asked

660
00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:11,919
bill anders for the camera and bill was

661
00:26:15,990 --> 00:26:13,760
the keeper of the photo plan and bill

662
00:26:17,590 --> 00:26:16,000
got very kind of intense about it

663
00:26:19,350 --> 00:26:17,600
and you can hear on the onboard voice

664
00:26:21,909 --> 00:26:19,360
tapes frank says i just want to take a

665
00:26:23,110 --> 00:26:21,919
picture i mean he's just like tourists

666
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:23,120
everywhere

667
00:26:26,549 --> 00:26:25,360
so when it comes to this moment of the

668
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:26,559
earth rise

669
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:28,320
it's anders who has the camera and

670
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:30,799
borman who's flying the spacecraft just

671
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:32,480
kind of gives him a little jab there

672
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:34,320
about hey don't take that it's not

673
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:36,400
scheduled and indeed it wasn't scheduled

674
00:26:41,669 --> 00:26:39,360
because this was a a complete surprise

675
00:26:43,350 --> 00:26:41,679
then you hear lovell come up from the

676
00:26:46,149 --> 00:26:43,360
lower equipment bay

677
00:26:48,310 --> 00:26:46,159
to join anders at the window you hear

678
00:26:49,830 --> 00:26:48,320
him say oh man that's great anders

679
00:26:53,990 --> 00:26:49,840
meanwhile who has already taken the

680
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:54,000
black and white is now intensely focused

681
00:26:59,350 --> 00:26:56,640
on getting a color magazine so he can

682
00:27:00,390 --> 00:26:59,360
slap that on it takes level a few

683
00:27:03,350 --> 00:27:00,400
minutes if

684
00:27:05,750 --> 00:27:03,360
several long moments to find it by that

685
00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:05,760
time the earth has disappeared from the

686
00:27:11,110 --> 00:27:08,080
side window because spacecraft's still

687
00:27:12,549 --> 00:27:11,120
turning but now it's in view in the

688
00:27:14,789 --> 00:27:12,559
rendezvous window which is right in

689
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:14,799
front of anders and also the center

690
00:27:19,590 --> 00:27:17,520
hatch window which is actually kind of

691
00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:19,600
cloudy it actually

692
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:21,360
is kind of surprising that lovell said

693
00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:23,120
i've got it right here it's very clear

694
00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:24,640
because really that window is pretty

695
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:27,120
well clouded up but anders has the

696
00:27:30,789 --> 00:27:29,360
telephoto lens and he aims it through

697
00:27:33,750 --> 00:27:30,799
the render window

698
00:27:36,549 --> 00:27:33,760
and takes the color pictures

699
00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:36,559
and then at the very end one last little

700
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:38,320
touch

701
00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:40,080
and this was something that built i

702
00:27:45,110 --> 00:27:41,760
played the tape sitting next to bill

703
00:27:47,350 --> 00:27:45,120
anders in his office in 1987

704
00:27:50,310 --> 00:27:47,360
and uh you hear a level say are you sure

705
00:27:54,470 --> 00:27:50,320
you got it now and anders kind of dryly

706
00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:54,480
says yeah i think it'll come up again

707
00:27:58,070 --> 00:27:56,080
and that that leads us beautifully to a

708
00:27:59,510 --> 00:27:58,080
question we have coming in um and please

709
00:28:01,750 --> 00:27:59,520
bring your questions in as we go through

710
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:01,760
and take out this tape the entire long

711
00:28:06,310 --> 00:28:03,440
visualization is available on the

712
00:28:08,710 --> 00:28:06,320
internet at that url behind me um john

713
00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:08,720
heasley uh wants to know was the crew of

714
00:28:13,269 --> 00:28:11,120
apollo 8 able to see the earth rise on

715
00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:13,279
later orbits and how about other

716
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:17,120
missions andrew yes and in fact um

717
00:28:22,149 --> 00:28:19,120
this was a bit of research that i had

718
00:28:24,789 --> 00:28:22,159
done before ernie and i got hooked up uh

719
00:28:26,789 --> 00:28:24,799
this was several years ago i i just took

720
00:28:29,350 --> 00:28:26,799
the there were later earthrise photos

721
00:28:30,549 --> 00:28:29,360
taken with a wider lens an 80 millimeter

722
00:28:33,029 --> 00:28:30,559
lens and

723
00:28:34,870 --> 00:28:33,039
for example if you've ever seen

724
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:34,880
you collectors out there the look

725
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:38,159
magazine special issue on apollo 8 you

726
00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:40,080
see a very wide view of the horizon a

727
00:28:43,669 --> 00:28:42,720
very small earth peaking up above it

728
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:43,679
those

729
00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:46,240
photographs were taken i think early on

730
00:28:50,549 --> 00:28:48,480
what the sixth and seventh

731
00:28:52,149 --> 00:28:50,559
uh orbits of the moon whereas the ones

732
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:52,159
we're looking at here were the fourth

733
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:54,880
orbit so several hours later

734
00:28:58,710 --> 00:28:55,840
and

735
00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:58,720
we know that bill had the 250 millimeter

736
00:29:01,909 --> 00:29:00,720
telephoto lens

737
00:29:03,510 --> 00:29:01,919
when these

738
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,520
these ones that we're looking at now

739
00:29:08,149 --> 00:29:05,679
were taken the fact that it was the wide

740
00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:08,159
lens suggests that it was probably born

741
00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:09,600
in fact you can see

742
00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:11,360
uh the outline of borman's rendezvous

743
00:29:15,510 --> 00:29:13,360
window i think isn't that right ernie i

744
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:15,520
yeah it was actually orbits five and

745
00:29:22,070 --> 00:29:19,360
seven and because i was able to find the

746
00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:22,080
the cloud map the cloud pattern for the

747
00:29:26,149 --> 00:29:23,919
earth and match that

748
00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:26,159
it's very easy to match up you know the

749
00:29:31,909 --> 00:29:29,440
times that those photographs were taken

750
00:29:34,230 --> 00:29:31,919
i think it's even the case that on orbit

751
00:29:35,669 --> 00:29:34,240
seven the transcript has

752
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:35,679
frank saying

753
00:29:39,669 --> 00:29:37,919
um you know guess what just came up

754
00:29:40,950 --> 00:29:39,679
again and he's talking to jim and he

755
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:40,960
says you know

756
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:42,480
and jim says something else he says no

757
00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:45,360
it was the earth and and so

758
00:29:49,990 --> 00:29:48,000
i'm fairly confident that frank took you

759
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:50,000
know about 12 of those pictures with the

760
00:29:55,510 --> 00:29:52,480
shorter lens right um but we can

761
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:55,520
we've matched those i've matched them up

762
00:30:00,230 --> 00:29:58,240
as still images as well and maybe at

763
00:30:02,149 --> 00:30:00,240
some point we'll put those out too

764
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:02,159
but it was definitely orbit five and

765
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:04,559
orbit seven that those and i have that

766
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:07,360
look magazine uh issue by the way

767
00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:08,399
and there were

768
00:30:13,110 --> 00:30:10,240
earth rise pictures taken on the later

769
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:13,120
missions every crew that went to moon

770
00:30:18,310 --> 00:30:15,600
talked about the earth as

771
00:30:20,710 --> 00:30:18,320
stu rusev from apollo 14 told me the

772
00:30:22,630 --> 00:30:20,720
earth was the magnet of the flight

773
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:22,640
and that was the way they all felt that

774
00:30:26,870 --> 00:30:24,720
yes it was amazing to look down at the

775
00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:26,880
moon but seeing the earth from that

776
00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:33,990
thank you all so much please continue

777
00:30:37,830 --> 00:30:35,760
bringing your great questions on twitter

778
00:30:40,630 --> 00:30:37,840
at hashtag earthrise or in the google

779
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:40,640
plus hangout um several people have been

780
00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:42,000
asking

781
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:43,600
whether the

782
00:30:47,350 --> 00:30:45,840
lro spacecraft the lunar reconnaissance

783
00:30:50,310 --> 00:30:47,360
orbiter the one that's orbiting the moon

784
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:50,320
right now is taking earthrise images and

785
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:51,600
that seems like a perfect question to

786
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:53,360
john to talk about sort of the point of

787
00:30:58,149 --> 00:30:55,760
lro and if it's getting any earthrise

788
00:30:59,110 --> 00:30:58,159
images or not john

789
00:31:01,430 --> 00:30:59,120
um

790
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:01,440
it turns out that the way the uh the

791
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:04,480
high resolution camera on on lrl works

792
00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:06,240
um we

793
00:31:11,190 --> 00:31:08,640
it's very difficult for us to to to

794
00:31:15,510 --> 00:31:11,200
recreate and earthrise although we have

795
00:31:20,389 --> 00:31:17,590
in the past and taken images of the

796
00:31:21,750 --> 00:31:20,399
earth and uh one example is where we did

797
00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:21,760
a um

798
00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:25,200
a uh a solar eclipse where we could we

799
00:31:29,029 --> 00:31:27,679
could we actually imaged the shadow of

800
00:31:31,669 --> 00:31:29,039
the moon

801
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:31,679
uh on the earth

802
00:31:35,909 --> 00:31:32,399
but

803
00:31:37,990 --> 00:31:35,919
mostly uh lro is is concentrating on its

804
00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:38,000
science objectives as i mentioned

805
00:31:43,350 --> 00:31:40,880
earlier it has seven instruments um just

806
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:43,360
very quickly uh there's a radiation

807
00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:45,600
detector on there that has a

808
00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:48,080
tissue equivalent plastic and we study

809
00:31:51,590 --> 00:31:50,320
the radiation environment at the moon

810
00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:51,600
there's a

811
00:31:55,990 --> 00:31:53,440
lunar radiometer where we measure the

812
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:56,000
temperature of the lunar surface and

813
00:31:58,950 --> 00:31:58,080
measure the coldest point

814
00:32:00,710 --> 00:31:58,960
uh

815
00:32:03,110 --> 00:32:00,720
measured in the solar system and that is

816
00:32:04,630 --> 00:32:03,120
in in these uh areas of poles of

817
00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:04,640
permanently shadowed craters of the

818
00:32:08,789 --> 00:32:05,760
poles

819
00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:08,799
uh we have a imaging uv spectrometer

820
00:32:12,549 --> 00:32:11,200
that's concentrated on looking for water

821
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:12,559
and in some of these permanently

822
00:32:16,710 --> 00:32:14,399
shadowed craters and also looking at the

823
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:16,720
atmosphere or the exosphere of the moon

824
00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:18,720
it doesn't really have an atmosphere

825
00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:20,480
there's a neutron detector that was

826
00:32:27,669 --> 00:32:24,880
contributed by the russian space agency

827
00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:27,679
the altimeter which we talked about and

828
00:32:32,070 --> 00:32:29,440
the the cameras

829
00:32:34,149 --> 00:32:32,080
they're really two camera systems uh one

830
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:34,159
is uh is the wide angle camera which is

831
00:32:38,149 --> 00:32:36,000
what ernie used to recreate these and

832
00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:38,159
then there's a narrow angle camera

833
00:32:43,990 --> 00:32:41,600
uh which had from 50 kilometers up uh 50

834
00:32:45,430 --> 00:32:44,000
centimeter uh resolution and those are

835
00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:45,440
the ones that

836
00:32:48,070 --> 00:32:47,120
that was the camera system that we use

837
00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:48,080
for the

838
00:32:54,789 --> 00:32:52,240
uh the apollo landing site uh images

839
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:54,799
and then finally we have a mini rf which

840
00:33:00,389 --> 00:32:58,559
is a radar system so we were able to to

841
00:33:01,350 --> 00:33:00,399
make measurements of the lunar surface

842
00:33:04,870 --> 00:33:01,360
using

843
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:04,880
and now john i have a question you

844
00:33:08,789 --> 00:33:06,960
probably get all the time which is you

845
00:33:10,549 --> 00:33:08,799
know are you doing all the studying of

846
00:33:13,029 --> 00:33:10,559
the moon so we can ultimately live there

847
00:33:16,070 --> 00:33:13,039
or build a moon base there is it pure

848
00:33:18,230 --> 00:33:16,080
scientific discovery when what's the the

849
00:33:19,430 --> 00:33:18,240
point of gathering all this data aside

850
00:33:20,630 --> 00:33:19,440
from the fact that the moon is just

851
00:33:21,509 --> 00:33:20,640
beautiful

852
00:33:22,310 --> 00:33:21,519
well

853
00:33:24,630 --> 00:33:22,320
um

854
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:24,640
it you know lro started its life off as

855
00:33:28,630 --> 00:33:26,880
an exploration mission and so we were

856
00:33:31,430 --> 00:33:28,640
interested in in

857
00:33:33,269 --> 00:33:31,440
in scouting landing uh potential landing

858
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:33,279
sites for robotic missions as well as

859
00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:34,559
human landers

860
00:33:40,070 --> 00:33:37,840
really lro is creating the maps that

861
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:40,080
will be used for generations

862
00:33:46,549 --> 00:33:42,720
for any number of purposes it's just

863
00:33:51,909 --> 00:33:48,870
the space agencies of the world want to

864
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:51,919
want to use that that data uh but then

865
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:54,799
also you know the moon is uh is a is a

866
00:33:57,669 --> 00:33:56,720
witness to the history of the solar

867
00:34:00,310 --> 00:33:57,679
system

868
00:34:02,789 --> 00:34:00,320
uh we're very interested in for example

869
00:34:04,789 --> 00:34:02,799
the cratering on the on the moon uh we

870
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:04,799
we study those craters carefully in

871
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:12,389
the crater the asteroids impacts on on

872
00:34:16,230 --> 00:34:14,159
the moon throughout throughout solar

873
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:16,240
system history because the moon is right

874
00:34:19,669 --> 00:34:17,760
next to the earth

875
00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:19,679
by studying that we know what was going

876
00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:21,359
we can say something about what was

877
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:22,399
happening

878
00:34:26,149 --> 00:34:24,240
on the on the earth in those early times

879
00:34:28,629 --> 00:34:26,159
whereas on the earth because of the

880
00:34:30,710 --> 00:34:28,639
earth's atmosphere and plate tectonics

881
00:34:33,349 --> 00:34:30,720
most of that information has been wiped

882
00:34:34,389 --> 00:34:33,359
out so the moon is our touchstone for

883
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:34,399
understanding

884
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:37,679
the early history of the solar system

885
00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:39,119
thank you so much and just a reminder

886
00:34:43,349 --> 00:34:40,800
that that's john keller he's the project

887
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:43,359
scientist for the lro mission joining us

888
00:34:47,909 --> 00:34:45,359
also is andrew chaikin he's a space

889
00:34:50,550 --> 00:34:47,919
historian and ernie wright who's a nasa

890
00:34:52,149 --> 00:34:50,560
goddard uh visualizer and i'm aries keck

891
00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:52,159
here at nasa goddard space flight center

892
00:34:55,909 --> 00:34:54,320
and we're talking about earthrise the

893
00:34:58,790 --> 00:34:55,919
iconic image that you can see right now

894
00:35:01,990 --> 00:34:58,800
behind ernie um and that was taken by

895
00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:02,000
the apollo 8 astronauts and also this

896
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:03,760
beautiful recreation that we've done

897
00:35:10,390 --> 00:35:07,119
using lro data um i have a question that

898
00:35:12,390 --> 00:35:10,400
that probably leans more for ernie um

899
00:35:14,390 --> 00:35:12,400
and ernie people are asking a little bit

900
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:14,400
about how to get your job you sit there

901
00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:16,960
and make awesome computer animation real

902
00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:20,560
data um two questions for you one could

903
00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:23,359
you talk a little bit about what you do

904
00:35:27,510 --> 00:35:25,280
and how this is different from

905
00:35:29,829 --> 00:35:27,520
what pixar does you know you use true

906
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:29,839
scientific data and another question

907
00:35:33,589 --> 00:35:31,680
that falls into this a lot of people are

908
00:35:35,670 --> 00:35:33,599
asking apparently the new gran turismo

909
00:35:38,069 --> 00:35:35,680
video game has a moon track will you

910
00:35:39,510 --> 00:35:38,079
race cars on the moon did you know about

911
00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:39,520
that were you involved with sending them

912
00:35:44,150 --> 00:35:41,680
any of this data so they could build a

913
00:35:46,630 --> 00:35:44,160
racetrack on the moon in that video game

914
00:35:49,430 --> 00:35:46,640
i was not directly involved in that but

915
00:35:53,510 --> 00:35:49,440
i can tell you that the all of the

916
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:53,520
data from lro is being archived publicly

917
00:35:58,550 --> 00:35:56,240
it's in the planetary data system and i

918
00:36:00,150 --> 00:35:58,560
think if you just search for lro

919
00:36:02,710 --> 00:36:00,160
pds

920
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:02,720
you'll find that all of the terrain data

921
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:03,839
and the

922
00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:06,480
the albedo maps and a lot of the other

923
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:09,440
data is out there and so anybody who

924
00:36:14,790 --> 00:36:12,480
wants to do this can

925
00:36:16,710 --> 00:36:14,800
i have had inquiries from

926
00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:16,720
movie makers over the past couple of

927
00:36:20,950 --> 00:36:18,560
years who

928
00:36:22,710 --> 00:36:20,960
because we talk happen to know that i'm

929
00:36:24,230 --> 00:36:22,720
working on moon stuff and they've asked

930
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:24,240
me where this data is and i just send

931
00:36:29,109 --> 00:36:27,200
them a link to the pds

932
00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:29,119
so i didn't know about that particular

933
00:36:31,270 --> 00:36:29,920
game

934
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:31,280
but i know that

935
00:36:34,550 --> 00:36:32,800
imagery of the moon is getting better

936
00:36:36,230 --> 00:36:34,560
all the time and it's because we have

937
00:36:39,270 --> 00:36:36,240
all this great lro data and it's all

938
00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:41,829
as far as what the studio does and how

939
00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:44,720
it's different from other animation

940
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:47,280
studios um we use a lot of the same

941
00:36:51,829 --> 00:36:50,400
software we use uh pixar's renderer um

942
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:51,839
and for this one i also used a little

943
00:36:56,069 --> 00:36:54,720
bit of light wave

944
00:36:57,430 --> 00:36:56,079
but

945
00:37:01,190 --> 00:36:57,440
what makes it different is that

946
00:37:01,990 --> 00:37:01,200
everything we do is driven by data

947
00:37:04,710 --> 00:37:02,000
so

948
00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:04,720
we're not allowed to make anything up

949
00:37:08,150 --> 00:37:06,480
we get we get

950
00:37:09,670 --> 00:37:08,160
short-tempered with people who come and

951
00:37:11,349 --> 00:37:09,680
ask us to make things up because we

952
00:37:15,589 --> 00:37:11,359
don't know how

953
00:37:19,030 --> 00:37:15,599
our skills are really for

954
00:37:21,190 --> 00:37:19,040
taking data from scientific missions and

955
00:37:22,710 --> 00:37:21,200
showing them to other scientists and to

956
00:37:24,870 --> 00:37:22,720
the public

957
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:24,880
in in ways that sort of illuminate what

958
00:37:28,950 --> 00:37:26,880
that data means

959
00:37:31,510 --> 00:37:28,960
and we have

960
00:37:33,510 --> 00:37:31,520
a website with several thousand of those

961
00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:33,520
animations that you can go to and it's

962
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:37,680
if you search for sbs you'll find it

963
00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:40,800
if you want my job

964
00:37:45,270 --> 00:37:42,400
most of the people that work in our

965
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:45,280
studio have computer science backgrounds

966
00:37:51,190 --> 00:37:47,760
we also have someone with a master of

967
00:37:53,109 --> 00:37:51,200
fine arts and we have an astrophysicist

968
00:37:55,750 --> 00:37:53,119
and so you bring your

969
00:37:57,750 --> 00:37:55,760
programming skills and your interest in

970
00:38:01,349 --> 00:37:57,760
space science

971
00:38:05,190 --> 00:38:01,359
and some experience with animation and

972
00:38:06,069 --> 00:38:05,200
we'll look at your resume um

973
00:38:08,390 --> 00:38:06,079
although

974
00:38:10,790 --> 00:38:08,400
i i'd like for it not to be my job i'd

975
00:38:12,550 --> 00:38:10,800
like for it to be a another opening

976
00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:12,560
um

977
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:14,640
but it's a it's an odd skill set i mean

978
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:16,560
it's not it's not a set of skills that

979
00:38:21,430 --> 00:38:18,960
everybody has

980
00:38:23,030 --> 00:38:21,440
so we're we're a very tight-knit group

981
00:38:25,030 --> 00:38:23,040
and we do a lot of

982
00:38:27,030 --> 00:38:25,040
custom programming that's the reason for

983
00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:27,040
the computer science background

984
00:38:30,150 --> 00:38:28,480
we need to

985
00:38:31,030 --> 00:38:30,160
almost every time

986
00:38:33,670 --> 00:38:31,040
write

987
00:38:35,910 --> 00:38:33,680
programs that translate scientific data

988
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:35,920
into forms that can be used in animation

989
00:38:38,870 --> 00:38:37,440
software

990
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:38,880
and we also have to apply a little bit

991
00:38:43,510 --> 00:38:40,560
of judgment about

992
00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:43,520
what a valid visual representation of

993
00:38:47,349 --> 00:38:45,599
this data is

994
00:38:48,790 --> 00:38:47,359
because it's pretty easy to misrepresent

995
00:38:51,990 --> 00:38:48,800
data if you just start goofing around

996
00:38:53,750 --> 00:38:52,000
with it and paste it wherever you like

997
00:38:57,030 --> 00:38:53,760
so those are kind of the things that we

998
00:39:00,150 --> 00:38:58,550
fantastic i'm going to try to go through

999
00:39:02,630 --> 00:39:00,160
some questions uh real quick thank you

1000
00:39:05,270 --> 00:39:02,640
all for sending them all in um

1001
00:39:07,109 --> 00:39:05,280
at erio donna wanted to know if earth

1002
00:39:10,069 --> 00:39:07,119
was the only planet that they were able

1003
00:39:11,109 --> 00:39:10,079
to see from the moon um ernie you're not

1004
00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:11,119
in if you want to take that i know

1005
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:12,880
andrew probably also know that knows the

1006
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:15,200
answer but were did the apollo

1007
00:39:17,910 --> 00:39:16,800
astronauts try to see other planets

1008
00:39:20,470 --> 00:39:17,920
while they were up there in their

1009
00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:23,990
uh well yeah go ahead ernie all right um

1010
00:39:29,190 --> 00:39:26,880
the thing i will say about that is that

1011
00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:29,200
it probably surprises people not to see

1012
00:39:33,270 --> 00:39:31,200
stars in a lot of these

1013
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:33,280
images from apollo

1014
00:39:36,310 --> 00:39:34,720
and

1015
00:39:38,310 --> 00:39:36,320
that's because most of the time they

1016
00:39:40,470 --> 00:39:38,320
were in daylight

1017
00:39:44,470 --> 00:39:40,480
and the astronauts themselves said that

1018
00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:44,480
they didn't see um stars until

1019
00:39:48,870 --> 00:39:47,760
they were not only on the on the

1020
00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:48,880
side of the moon that was not

1021
00:39:53,510 --> 00:39:51,280
illuminated by the sun but also on the

1022
00:39:54,790 --> 00:39:53,520
part that was not illuminated by the

1023
00:39:59,990 --> 00:39:54,800
earth

1024
00:40:02,790 --> 00:40:00,000
but they really needed to be in complete

1025
00:40:04,870 --> 00:40:02,800
darkness before they started to see

1026
00:40:06,790 --> 00:40:04,880
um the rest of space and then when that

1027
00:40:08,710 --> 00:40:06,800
became apparent it was beautiful but

1028
00:40:12,470 --> 00:40:08,720
they didn't see it all the time

1029
00:40:14,630 --> 00:40:12,480
um i don't know and andy may know i

1030
00:40:16,390 --> 00:40:14,640
don't know whether apollo 8 saw any of

1031
00:40:18,950 --> 00:40:16,400
the other planets i know they saw stars

1032
00:40:20,550 --> 00:40:18,960
and they used stars for navigation

1033
00:40:21,829 --> 00:40:20,560
but there were many times when they

1034
00:40:24,230 --> 00:40:21,839
couldn't see them because they were

1035
00:40:26,470 --> 00:40:24,240
literally in daylight

1036
00:40:27,829 --> 00:40:26,480
yeah that's that's right i mean

1037
00:40:29,430 --> 00:40:27,839
this is uh

1038
00:40:32,390 --> 00:40:29,440
one of the things that

1039
00:40:34,710 --> 00:40:32,400
um you know there is a small

1040
00:40:37,270 --> 00:40:34,720
minority uh of people who actually don't

1041
00:40:39,109 --> 00:40:37,280
believe that the moon landings happened

1042
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:39,119
and one of the things that they always

1043
00:40:42,870 --> 00:40:41,280
say is hey if they if they are on the

1044
00:40:44,950 --> 00:40:42,880
moon how come there are no stars in the

1045
00:40:45,829 --> 00:40:44,960
photos well the fact is that the stars

1046
00:40:48,630 --> 00:40:45,839
are

1047
00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:48,640
you know millions of times fainter

1048
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:51,200
than the sun lit surface of the moon

1049
00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:52,560
itself

1050
00:40:56,150 --> 00:40:54,160
and so whether you're looking at it with

1051
00:40:58,150 --> 00:40:56,160
your eyeball or photographing it with a

1052
00:40:59,670 --> 00:40:58,160
camera

1053
00:41:01,829 --> 00:40:59,680
you've got to have the right conditions

1054
00:41:03,910 --> 00:41:01,839
to see stars in the daylight

1055
00:41:06,550 --> 00:41:03,920
and there's only one

1056
00:41:09,349 --> 00:41:06,560
example that i know of

1057
00:41:11,109 --> 00:41:09,359
where a planet is recorded in a lunar

1058
00:41:13,910 --> 00:41:11,119
surface photo it's a

1059
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:13,920
photograph from apollo 16

1060
00:41:19,670 --> 00:41:16,800
and it does show venus if you know

1061
00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:19,680
exactly where to look in the photo

1062
00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:22,400
and it's only you know one little bright

1063
00:41:27,430 --> 00:41:25,359
dot because venus is extremely bright

1064
00:41:28,390 --> 00:41:27,440
and you know we can see venus even here

1065
00:41:29,670 --> 00:41:28,400
on earth

1066
00:41:31,190 --> 00:41:29,680
if you know exactly where it looks

1067
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:31,200
sometimes you can see venus in the day

1068
00:41:36,390 --> 00:41:34,880
time but in general as ernie said

1069
00:41:37,990 --> 00:41:36,400
even if you're standing on the surface

1070
00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:38,000
of the moon if you want to see stars

1071
00:41:42,309 --> 00:41:40,000
you'd have to go into the shadow of the

1072
00:41:43,349 --> 00:41:42,319
lunar module and let your eyes dark

1073
00:41:45,030 --> 00:41:43,359
adapt

1074
00:41:47,670 --> 00:41:45,040
before you could really see them

1075
00:41:49,190 --> 00:41:47,680
otherwise you know you're really just

1076
00:41:54,390 --> 00:41:49,200
everything's washed out by the

1077
00:41:57,990 --> 00:41:56,150
um and uh we're getting questions in

1078
00:41:59,430 --> 00:41:58,000
fast and furious here uh one of the

1079
00:42:00,950 --> 00:41:59,440
questions that have come in people are

1080
00:42:03,030 --> 00:42:00,960
asking what part of earth are they

1081
00:42:04,790 --> 00:42:03,040
looking at and i actually was squinting

1082
00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:04,800
at the image behind ernie trying to see

1083
00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:07,440
what if i could see a consonant there um

1084
00:42:10,470 --> 00:42:08,480
andrew

1085
00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:10,480
what exactly what part of earth is seen

1086
00:42:13,990 --> 00:42:12,160
in earthwise and then the follow-up

1087
00:42:15,030 --> 00:42:14,000
question is people asking does it change

1088
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:15,040
as

1089
00:42:21,190 --> 00:42:19,440
the moon goes around earth well well

1090
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:21,200
ernie really nailed this down so i'll

1091
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:22,960
let him talk about it

1092
00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:23,920
okay

1093
00:42:28,390 --> 00:42:25,520
um the

1094
00:42:31,349 --> 00:42:28,400
earthrise image that was taken um on the

1095
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:31,359
fourth orbit shows uh the

1096
00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:35,280
western coast of africa at the bottom

1097
00:42:40,950 --> 00:42:37,920
and north is to the right in that image

1098
00:42:42,550 --> 00:42:40,960
and antarctica is visible on the left

1099
00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:42,560
side of that image

1100
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:43,440
and

1101
00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:44,400
south america

1102
00:42:48,390 --> 00:42:46,720
is coming into view at the top

1103
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:48,400
um in

1104
00:42:53,990 --> 00:42:49,440
later

1105
00:42:55,190 --> 00:42:54,000
africa has moved into night time

1106
00:42:57,829 --> 00:42:55,200
and

1107
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:57,839
south america is central

1108
00:43:02,550 --> 00:42:59,760
in those pictures

1109
00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:02,560
um so yeah the the earth the earth is

1110
00:43:05,510 --> 00:43:04,400
rotating it took them about two hours

1111
00:43:08,069 --> 00:43:05,520
per orbit

1112
00:43:11,109 --> 00:43:08,079
so the earth would rotate one twelfth of

1113
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:11,119
the way around in between each orbit

1114
00:43:16,550 --> 00:43:13,440
and the moon is also moving a little bit

1115
00:43:19,430 --> 00:43:16,560
and that has a has a smaller effect on

1116
00:43:21,510 --> 00:43:19,440
what part of the earth is visible um

1117
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:21,520
those yeah those changes are absolutely

1118
00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:23,040
visible in the photography that they

1119
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:24,640
took

1120
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:26,400
fantastic um one of the questions we're

1121
00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:27,920
getting that i think someone who speaks

1122
00:43:32,150 --> 00:43:29,520
for the robots is noting that this was

1123
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:32,160
the first earthrise taken by humans

1124
00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:34,079
now andrew you probably know this as

1125
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:36,160
well what what was the first earthrise

1126
00:43:39,430 --> 00:43:38,160
image then ever taken i have the answer

1127
00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:39,440
here because they've been sending it to

1128
00:43:44,550 --> 00:43:42,560
us but right and i think i maybe know

1129
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:44,560
who that person is who's asking that

1130
00:43:46,950 --> 00:43:45,520
question

1131
00:43:49,030 --> 00:43:46,960
i think i do too

1132
00:43:51,589 --> 00:43:49,040
they they're absolutely right the first

1133
00:43:54,069 --> 00:43:51,599
image of an earth rise

1134
00:43:55,910 --> 00:43:54,079
was actually taken by a robotic probe

1135
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:55,920
called lunar orbiter

1136
00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:58,079
and i don't remember which lunar orbiter

1137
00:44:02,470 --> 00:43:59,520
it was i have a feeling it might have

1138
00:44:04,950 --> 00:44:02,480
been lunar orbiter 4 but i'm not sure

1139
00:44:07,589 --> 00:44:04,960
in 1966 i believe

1140
00:44:09,910 --> 00:44:07,599
it was a black and white image

1141
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:09,920
because of the way that lunar the lunar

1142
00:44:14,710 --> 00:44:11,920
orbiter probes not to be confused with

1143
00:44:16,630 --> 00:44:14,720
today's lunar reconnaissance orbiter the

1144
00:44:17,589 --> 00:44:16,640
lunar orbiter probes which were the

1145
00:44:20,309 --> 00:44:17,599
first

1146
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:20,319
to create detailed photographic maps of

1147
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:21,680
the moon

1148
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:24,640
had a unusual image system where they

1149
00:44:28,309 --> 00:44:25,920
actually shot

1150
00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:28,319
photographic film on board developed

1151
00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:30,800
that film on board and then scanned the

1152
00:44:34,550 --> 00:44:31,920
resulting

1153
00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:34,560
uh developed film and re and transmitted

1154
00:44:38,470 --> 00:44:35,440
that

1155
00:44:40,069 --> 00:44:38,480
uh as brightness variations

1156
00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:40,079
uh to the earth and that was then

1157
00:44:44,309 --> 00:44:42,400
reconstructed into an image so when you

1158
00:44:46,309 --> 00:44:44,319
see one of those lunar orbiter images

1159
00:44:48,150 --> 00:44:46,319
they're kind of like strips put together

1160
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:48,160
now a recent project

1161
00:44:54,630 --> 00:44:50,640
called the lunar orbiter image recovery

1162
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:54,640
project has done some beautiful work uh

1163
00:44:57,750 --> 00:44:56,160
reconstructing those images from the

1164
00:44:59,510 --> 00:44:57,760
original data tapes

1165
00:45:02,710 --> 00:44:59,520
and they're much more

1166
00:45:04,870 --> 00:45:02,720
um they're much nicer uh presentations

1167
00:45:06,470 --> 00:45:04,880
of those images than we had at the time

1168
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:06,480
and one of the images that they've

1169
00:45:12,069 --> 00:45:09,839
recreated is that earthrise image from

1170
00:45:13,589 --> 00:45:12,079
lunar orbiter so if you google

1171
00:45:16,069 --> 00:45:13,599
loirp

1172
00:45:17,910 --> 00:45:16,079
for lunar orbiter image recovery project

1173
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:17,920
and earthrise you will find that

1174
00:45:22,630 --> 00:45:19,599
recreated image

1175
00:45:25,670 --> 00:45:22,640
but the difference was just to add the

1176
00:45:28,550 --> 00:45:25,680
historian's perspective here

1177
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:28,560
there's no comparison between

1178
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:30,000
a camera

1179
00:45:35,349 --> 00:45:32,880
that is robotically controlled and a

1180
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:35,359
camera held by a human this i'm a big

1181
00:45:39,670 --> 00:45:37,200
fan of robotic space flight i'm a huge

1182
00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:39,680
fan of robotic space flight but

1183
00:45:45,030 --> 00:45:43,040
once the astronauts got to the moon

1184
00:45:47,190 --> 00:45:45,040
the fact that she had a human taking

1185
00:45:49,349 --> 00:45:47,200
that picture who could then come home

1186
00:45:50,550 --> 00:45:49,359
and talk about what it was like to see

1187
00:45:54,550 --> 00:45:50,560
that

1188
00:45:57,750 --> 00:45:54,560
it just struck a accord on a much higher

1189
00:45:59,990 --> 00:45:57,760
uh more intense level for for the entire

1190
00:46:02,150 --> 00:46:00,000
world

1191
00:46:04,309 --> 00:46:02,160
fantastic um we're having some questions

1192
00:46:06,309 --> 00:46:04,319
here as well about what the orbiter we

1193
00:46:08,309 --> 00:46:06,319
have around the moon right now so i

1194
00:46:10,790 --> 00:46:08,319
wanted to throw it to john and

1195
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:10,800
behind you on your bookshelf is i

1196
00:46:15,270 --> 00:46:13,200
believe a globe that shows the the topo

1197
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:15,280
map that lro was able to create of the

1198
00:46:19,589 --> 00:46:17,680
moon in all those beautiful colors what

1199
00:46:21,670 --> 00:46:19,599
was the point of creating a very high

1200
00:46:24,309 --> 00:46:21,680
resolution

1201
00:46:25,109 --> 00:46:24,319
topo map of the moon and putting it in

1202
00:46:27,109 --> 00:46:25,119
those

1203
00:46:28,230 --> 00:46:27,119
to our eyes odd colors instead of the

1204
00:46:29,990 --> 00:46:28,240
black and white that we're used to

1205
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:30,000
seeing

1206
00:46:34,950 --> 00:46:31,680
well i think uh the reason for the

1207
00:46:38,309 --> 00:46:34,960
coloring is it makes it uh to the to a

1208
00:46:39,910 --> 00:46:38,319
person looking at the moon

1209
00:46:42,309 --> 00:46:39,920
you can quickly see where the high

1210
00:46:44,230 --> 00:46:42,319
points are and where the low points are

1211
00:46:46,309 --> 00:46:44,240
um you know one of the reasons the

1212
00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:46,319
science one of the science reasons for

1213
00:46:50,630 --> 00:46:48,960
for making these maps

1214
00:46:52,069 --> 00:46:50,640
just as an example

1215
00:46:52,790 --> 00:46:52,079
um

1216
00:46:54,309 --> 00:46:52,800
we

1217
00:46:55,510 --> 00:46:54,319
by by looking

1218
00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:55,520
carefully

1219
00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:58,079
uh from both the high resolution images

1220
00:47:01,589 --> 00:47:00,240
and the and the and the

1221
00:47:02,710 --> 00:47:01,599
topography

1222
00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:02,720
we're able to

1223
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:04,960
to see features on the moon

1224
00:47:09,190 --> 00:47:06,480
um

1225
00:47:11,190 --> 00:47:09,200
that indicate for example that that the

1226
00:47:13,829 --> 00:47:11,200
moon uh this is one of our science

1227
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:13,839
discoveries that the moon is still in in

1228
00:47:18,150 --> 00:47:16,160
a state where it is still shrinking now

1229
00:47:21,589 --> 00:47:18,160
of course it's extremely slowly

1230
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:21,599
shrinking but it shows up tectonically

1231
00:47:27,510 --> 00:47:25,680
in in wrinkle ridges on the moon uh

1232
00:47:29,670 --> 00:47:27,520
but the geologists you know they

1233
00:47:31,349 --> 00:47:29,680
recognize those from from

1234
00:47:33,910 --> 00:47:31,359
comparable features on the earth and

1235
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:33,920
other planets uh mercury for example

1236
00:47:38,630 --> 00:47:36,240
they recognize that they see we we've

1237
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:38,640
discovered that these ridges are are

1238
00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:41,280
globally distributed using these data

1239
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:42,160
and

1240
00:47:48,710 --> 00:47:45,760
we determined that the that the moon is

1241
00:47:49,430 --> 00:47:48,720
still in a state of cooling and and

1242
00:47:51,670 --> 00:47:49,440
and

1243
00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:51,680
contracting very slightly

1244
00:47:54,870 --> 00:47:52,400
but

1245
00:47:57,510 --> 00:47:54,880
the reason it's important is that

1246
00:47:59,430 --> 00:47:57,520
then we can go back and say gee what was

1247
00:48:03,910 --> 00:47:59,440
the state of the moon when it was formed

1248
00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:06,309
did it have a solid core or was it in a

1249
00:48:10,630 --> 00:48:08,800
melted state and knowing a little bit

1250
00:48:12,870 --> 00:48:10,640
more about the thermal state of the moon

1251
00:48:15,829 --> 00:48:12,880
now allows us to

1252
00:48:18,390 --> 00:48:15,839
constrain those models of the moon when

1253
00:48:22,230 --> 00:48:18,400
it was when it was originally formed

1254
00:48:25,190 --> 00:48:22,240
so the topography has has a lot of

1255
00:48:27,990 --> 00:48:25,200
science drivers for it but then

1256
00:48:31,109 --> 00:48:28,000
you know as i've said it's also a map

1257
00:48:32,950 --> 00:48:31,119
for future explorers

1258
00:48:35,589 --> 00:48:32,960
i can see the headlines already nasa

1259
00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:35,599
says the moon is shrinking yeah how when

1260
00:48:38,069 --> 00:48:36,800
you say it's shrinking is this are we

1261
00:48:40,950 --> 00:48:38,079
talking

1262
00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:40,960
micrometer millimeters yeah something

1263
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:43,920
that only geologists would notice or

1264
00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:47,040
yeah it's it's it's extremely slow and

1265
00:48:51,270 --> 00:48:49,200
you know geologists thinking a short

1266
00:48:52,630 --> 00:48:51,280
period of time for a geologist is 100

1267
00:48:53,750 --> 00:48:52,640
million years

1268
00:48:57,190 --> 00:48:53,760
and so

1269
00:49:00,390 --> 00:48:57,200
uh in geology geological time scales

1270
00:49:02,790 --> 00:49:00,400
it's it's shrinking and and and we know

1271
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:02,800
that these features are are relatively

1272
00:49:09,510 --> 00:49:03,839
new

1273
00:49:10,870 --> 00:49:09,520
look at at the cratering around those

1274
00:49:13,589 --> 00:49:10,880
features and if they're you know if

1275
00:49:15,349 --> 00:49:13,599
there were a lot of craters over the

1276
00:49:18,390 --> 00:49:15,359
features then we would say gee it's old

1277
00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:18,400
because it's had time for the

1278
00:49:23,910 --> 00:49:21,440
meteorites to uh

1279
00:49:25,829 --> 00:49:23,920
age age it and then

1280
00:49:27,670 --> 00:49:25,839
the fact that these features look fairly

1281
00:49:29,750 --> 00:49:27,680
fresh tells us that it's that they're

1282
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:29,760
relatively new and new again in

1283
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:32,400
geological speak it's 100 million years

1284
00:49:38,230 --> 00:49:35,040
300 million years

1285
00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:38,240
a long time is billions of years

1286
00:49:41,430 --> 00:49:40,160
in the geology time is a whole different

1287
00:49:43,589 --> 00:49:41,440
time scale than what we're used to

1288
00:49:46,150 --> 00:49:43,599
hearing um speaking of new those of us

1289
00:49:48,069 --> 00:49:46,160
here on the east coast recently saw a uh

1290
00:49:49,910 --> 00:49:48,079
rocket launch that carried another moon

1291
00:49:52,230 --> 00:49:49,920
mission that went up laddie john can you

1292
00:49:54,150 --> 00:49:52,240
tell us a little bit about what lady is

1293
00:49:56,230 --> 00:49:54,160
doing in in it's studying the moon and

1294
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:56,240
then i can already hear the question how

1295
00:50:01,670 --> 00:49:58,480
are we making sure that lady and lro

1296
00:50:05,190 --> 00:50:01,680
don't swack into each other up there

1297
00:50:08,230 --> 00:50:05,200
well um the lady is uh is a mission to

1298
00:50:10,390 --> 00:50:08,240
the moon that is designed to look at the

1299
00:50:12,470 --> 00:50:10,400
exosphere the moon and the dust

1300
00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:12,480
environment

1301
00:50:17,990 --> 00:50:14,960
it is an orbit that is

1302
00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:18,000
largely equatorial and uh we're in a

1303
00:50:21,990 --> 00:50:20,160
polar orbit and so our orbit tracks

1304
00:50:23,270 --> 00:50:22,000
actually do cross

1305
00:50:25,670 --> 00:50:23,280
um

1306
00:50:27,109 --> 00:50:25,680
it so we're going like this and ladies

1307
00:50:29,510 --> 00:50:27,119
going like this and i've found that i

1308
00:50:30,309 --> 00:50:29,520
can't do both simultaneously i've tried

1309
00:50:32,069 --> 00:50:30,319
but

1310
00:50:34,630 --> 00:50:32,079
um

1311
00:50:37,109 --> 00:50:34,640
uh we we actually our orbit tracks do

1312
00:50:39,109 --> 00:50:37,119
cross uh uh

1313
00:50:41,270 --> 00:50:39,119
all the time and the closest we've been

1314
00:50:44,470 --> 00:50:41,280
so far at aladdin is uh

1315
00:50:45,270 --> 00:50:44,480
uh i think 10 about around 10 kilometers

1316
00:50:46,630 --> 00:50:45,280
but

1317
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:46,640
um

1318
00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:48,880
the fact is is their orbit where we

1319
00:50:52,790 --> 00:50:50,640
cross is lower than ours and so there's

1320
00:50:54,710 --> 00:50:52,800
really no danger that that we run into

1321
00:50:56,230 --> 00:50:54,720
them um

1322
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:56,240
you know even if we tried it's low

1323
00:50:59,510 --> 00:50:58,559
probability but but it's really not

1324
00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:59,520
possible

1325
00:51:03,510 --> 00:51:01,520
uh but it's interesting that you know

1326
00:51:07,109 --> 00:51:03,520
we're attempting to work with lady and

1327
00:51:09,270 --> 00:51:07,119
do some some coordinated studies ladie

1328
00:51:11,030 --> 00:51:09,280
uh because it's in its equatorial orbit

1329
00:51:12,790 --> 00:51:11,040
and it's got some very high sensitive

1330
00:51:14,630 --> 00:51:12,800
instruments that are designed

1331
00:51:17,109 --> 00:51:14,640
specifically for their mission which is

1332
00:51:19,510 --> 00:51:17,119
to look at the exosphere you know what's

1333
00:51:20,710 --> 00:51:19,520
in the atmosphere of the moon

1334
00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:20,720
um

1335
00:51:26,549 --> 00:51:24,240
it does that very well and we have uh

1336
00:51:28,069 --> 00:51:26,559
specifically the lamp instrument the uv

1337
00:51:29,589 --> 00:51:28,079
spectrometer on

1338
00:51:31,349 --> 00:51:29,599
on the moon

1339
00:51:34,069 --> 00:51:31,359
um

1340
00:51:36,470 --> 00:51:34,079
on lro and and we're able to measure uh

1341
00:51:38,309 --> 00:51:36,480
some some of the atmosphere as well

1342
00:51:40,470 --> 00:51:38,319
and and because we're in a different

1343
00:51:42,390 --> 00:51:40,480
orbit we can kind of correlate what

1344
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:42,400
their equatorial measurements with our

1345
00:51:45,829 --> 00:51:44,240
polar measurements and try to get a more

1346
00:51:48,230 --> 00:51:45,839
global picture of

1347
00:51:50,710 --> 00:51:48,240
the transport of these uh

1348
00:51:52,230 --> 00:51:50,720
very tenuous species that are

1349
00:51:53,349 --> 00:51:52,240
moving around

1350
00:51:55,910 --> 00:51:53,359
you know in the

1351
00:51:57,270 --> 00:51:55,920
exosphere

1352
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:57,280
fantastic we've only got about three

1353
00:52:00,630 --> 00:51:59,200
minutes left in this hangout um and

1354
00:52:01,990 --> 00:52:00,640
we're getting a lot of questions and so

1355
00:52:03,430 --> 00:52:02,000
i'm going to try to do a bit of

1356
00:52:06,309 --> 00:52:03,440
summaries for some of them one of them

1357
00:52:08,150 --> 00:52:06,319
for for ernie um now that this is done

1358
00:52:09,589 --> 00:52:08,160
what are you doing next as people are

1359
00:52:11,430 --> 00:52:09,599
asking about are you planning on taking

1360
00:52:13,510 --> 00:52:11,440
the laddie data are you planning on

1361
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:13,520
taking a vacation and you i know a lot

1362
00:52:16,470 --> 00:52:15,200
of work went into these six minutes that

1363
00:52:19,430 --> 00:52:16,480
we released today

1364
00:52:21,829 --> 00:52:19,440
i'm going to take a nap um and enjoy the

1365
00:52:22,790 --> 00:52:21,839
holidays but um as soon as i get back

1366
00:52:25,510 --> 00:52:22,800
i'm going to

1367
00:52:27,589 --> 00:52:25,520
restart with uh what i've been doing

1368
00:52:29,190 --> 00:52:27,599
with lro

1369
00:52:31,109 --> 00:52:29,200
they have

1370
00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:31,119
data that i can't really talk about yet

1371
00:52:34,470 --> 00:52:32,880
but um we're going to do some cool

1372
00:52:37,030 --> 00:52:34,480
things with

1373
00:52:41,589 --> 00:52:39,510
yeah i mean the data's coming from lro

1374
00:52:43,670 --> 00:52:41,599
all the time and we have to sort of pick

1375
00:52:45,190 --> 00:52:43,680
and choose what we what we

1376
00:52:46,790 --> 00:52:45,200
tell people about

1377
00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:46,800
and there will be something waiting for

1378
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:48,400
me the first week of january when i come

1379
00:52:51,829 --> 00:52:50,640
back

1380
00:52:53,990 --> 00:52:51,839
thank you so much i have one last

1381
00:52:55,190 --> 00:52:54,000
question then for andrew um when it

1382
00:52:56,549 --> 00:52:55,200
comes to i mean you've you've

1383
00:52:58,470 --> 00:52:56,559
essentially made the apollo missions

1384
00:53:01,510 --> 00:52:58,480
your life's work what is it about the

1385
00:53:03,430 --> 00:53:01,520
apollo missions that that for you just

1386
00:53:05,670 --> 00:53:03,440
keeps you enthralled with them and keeps

1387
00:53:07,030 --> 00:53:05,680
them so interesting

1388
00:53:11,910 --> 00:53:07,040
um

1389
00:53:14,069 --> 00:53:11,920
history the the moment when we

1390
00:53:15,190 --> 00:53:14,079
left our home planet and and took our

1391
00:53:18,230 --> 00:53:15,200
first

1392
00:53:19,990 --> 00:53:18,240
voyages to another world and um

1393
00:53:23,589 --> 00:53:20,000
you know i just find that there's always

1394
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:23,599
more to discover about apollo

1395
00:53:29,349 --> 00:53:27,119
looking at the earthrise photo now

1396
00:53:32,309 --> 00:53:29,359
i couldn't help but think of the the

1397
00:53:33,270 --> 00:53:32,319
quote the famous line from the great

1398
00:53:35,990 --> 00:53:33,280
russian

1399
00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:36,000
space visionary constantine siokovsky

1400
00:53:40,230 --> 00:53:37,520
who wrote that

1401
00:53:41,910 --> 00:53:40,240
uh the earth is the cradle of humanity

1402
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:41,920
but one cannot live in the cradle

1403
00:53:45,910 --> 00:53:42,960
forever

1404
00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:45,920
and i i have to admit i i get kind of

1405
00:53:48,710 --> 00:53:47,040
emotional

1406
00:53:50,870 --> 00:53:48,720
looking at that picture

1407
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:50,880
and realizing that for all of us that is

1408
00:53:55,829 --> 00:53:53,760
the cradle and to see it with those eyes

1409
00:53:58,790 --> 00:53:55,839
and realize we're still

1410
00:54:00,710 --> 00:53:58,800
in the process of leaving that cradle

1411
00:54:02,069 --> 00:54:00,720
it's taken a little longer than we would

1412
00:54:03,829 --> 00:54:02,079
have expected

1413
00:54:06,470 --> 00:54:03,839
45 years ago

1414
00:54:08,069 --> 00:54:06,480
but the fact that we can keep revisiting

1415
00:54:11,670 --> 00:54:08,079
that experience and getting more out of

1416
00:54:13,109 --> 00:54:11,680
it is just a it's an ongoing joy for me

1417
00:54:17,589 --> 00:54:13,119
and um

1418
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:19,030
thank you all so much thank you to

1419
00:54:21,750 --> 00:54:20,400
everyone who's been watching this live

1420
00:54:23,589 --> 00:54:21,760
and thank you to everyone who's maybe

1421
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:23,599
watching it later as it's archived on

1422
00:54:28,150 --> 00:54:26,160
youtube for uh for all time hopefully

1423
00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:28,160
joining us has been andrew chakin space

1424
00:54:32,710 --> 00:54:29,920
historian and author

1425
00:54:34,710 --> 00:54:32,720
john keller um the project scientist for

1426
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:34,720
lro the lunar reconnaissance orbiter

1427
00:54:39,030 --> 00:54:37,359
which is orbiting the moon right now and

1428
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:39,040
ernie wright who is one of the science

1429
00:54:43,829 --> 00:54:41,520
visualizers there you will keep me f

1430
00:54:45,670 --> 00:54:43,839
keep answering your questions uh

1431
00:54:48,309 --> 00:54:45,680
throughout the weekend and such and also

1432
00:54:50,069 --> 00:54:48,319
if you go to the at lro nasa twitter

1433
00:54:51,990 --> 00:54:50,079
feed they have been live tweeting this

1434
00:54:54,630 --> 00:54:52,000
entire event and we'll be continuing to

1435
00:54:56,710 --> 00:54:54,640
to post new things especially since

1436
00:54:58,950 --> 00:54:56,720
christmas eve coming up is the 45th

1437
00:55:00,710 --> 00:54:58,960
anniversary anniversary of this event so

1438
00:55:03,030 --> 00:55:00,720
it was 45 years ago and it's a big

1439
00:55:05,030 --> 00:55:03,040
anniversary for not only space missions

1440
00:55:07,190 --> 00:55:05,040
but i think for all of us here on earth

1441
00:55:08,790 --> 00:55:07,200
as viewed from the moon i'm mary's keck

1442
00:55:09,829 --> 00:55:08,800
here at nasa goddard thank you all so

1443
00:55:12,150 --> 00:55:09,839
much for listening and thank you